RELEASE DATE: June 3, 2021
Mt. Freelance Podcast - Episode 108
Ayanna Berkshire
Freelance Film / TV / Theatre / Voice Actress
Our eighth episode features an interview with actor Ayanna Berkshire whose career has spanned big budget movies, not so big budget movies, television, theater and commercial work. In our interview she offers insight into her craft and tons of advice that freelancers can apply to their path no matter their creative career.
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38 Min
Episode Recap
In our fifth episode Aaron James and Andrew Dickson welcome actor Ayanna Berkshire to to the Mt. Freelance podcast.
Ayanna started acting as a teenager and has been a working actor for two decades, with a career that spans Hollywood blockbusters, Independent films, episodic television, award-winning theater productions and yes, even commercial work. Perhaps best known for playing Cora in Twilight she is a resident artist of Artists Repertory Theatre and a 2020 recipient of the Fox Foundation Resident Actor Fellowship.
What makes Ayanna’s career particularly impressive is the breadth and quality of her work and the fact that she’s been able to thrive as a working actor based in Portland, Oregon. In fact her IMDB page reads like a history of Portland film and televisions from the past two decades.
While we don’t always immediately think of actors as freelancers, Ayanna assures they most certainly are. In our interview Ayanna drives into her craft, sharing insights like what filmmakers need to do in order to set actors up for success and touches some of the challenges actors and performers, and in particular female actors of color, face.
And she offers up a long list of insanely practical and inspiring advice for any and all creative people from the dangers to selling out when you’re young to the importance of forming a connection with the people you are working with right now because they are the ones who will create opportunities for you down the road. This episode is a must listen for anyone looking for insights into the craft of acting or looking to get fired up about digging into your freelance career and investing in your future.
Ayanna Berkshire
Episode 108
Intro:
This podcast is brought to you by Digital One. Tell your story, connect with your audience and build your brand with an engaging podcast. Learn more at digone.com. (singing)
Andrew Dickson:
Welcome to the Mt. Freelance Podcast. I'm Andrew Dickson.
Aaron James:
I'm Aaron James.
Andrew Dickson:
What's this podcast all about, Aaron?
Aaron James:
Well, I was hoping you would answer that.
Andrew Dickson:
We are going to bring in a premier creative freelancer and we are going to interview them so that you, our listener, and you Aaron learn more about freelancing.
Aaron James:
I think as we have created Mt. Freelance, which is a course community and now a thriving podcasts to learn about the craft and business side of freelance. I think one thing we have learned is that there is a lot to learn.
Andrew Dickson:
You know we should do after the interview is we should answer a listener question so that we can actually offer some of our own freelance advice because we've been doing this for a while. Haven't we?
Aaron James:
Yeah, we have. I mean, over time, I think we've picked up a few tricks of the trade, a few hacks we're willing to share. I mean, the whole idea is that this isn't a secret anymore.
Andrew Dickson:
I'm pulling up the Mt. Freelance website, which you designed and I wrote. It says here we have over two decades combined freelance experience working for some of the biggest brands and agencies in the world. Is that true?
Aaron James:
That is true. I will give you a podcast high five. (singing) Andrew, do you think actors are considered freelancers?
Andrew Dickson:
I don't think they are considered freelance, but they are.
Aaron James:
Yeah, they are.
Andrew Dickson:
I'm super excited to welcome, not just our next guest but all actors into the freelance world.
Aaron James:
Welcome actors.
Andrew Dickson:
You're officially welcome here at the Mt. Freelance proverbial table. But yeah, our next guest, I actually met during the only acting class I ever took, which is 15 years ago. I'm guessing it was not her only one. She is Ayanna Berkshire. I do remember her doing the homework.
Aaron James:
In the class, right?
Andrew Dickson:
I did not do mine. She did hers.
Aaron James:
She probably did the extra credit.
Andrew Dickson:
She is currently a SAG member. My membership is on hold. Ayanna Berkshire.
(transition)
Host: Aaron James:
Hello.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Hello.
Host: Aaron James:
Thanks for joining us.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
It's my pleasure. What else was I doing?
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Ayanna, where are you in this world? Where are we talking to you from right now?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I'm up in the San Juan Islands. I'm actually in my mom's art studio at the moment. You might hear a little bit of echo. I'm up here. Well, my boyfriend and I are building our home.
Host: Aaron James:
You are living out my wife's fantasy right now.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I know. Yeah. It's hard work.
Host: Aaron James:
She sends me listings and all this stuff. Today she sent me a listing. It was like old fixer-upper somewhere up in Washington. I was like, oh my gosh, you're giving me a heart attack.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Yeah, my mom is a realtor out here.
Host: Aaron James:
That must be really fun.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
It's so fun.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
One of the things we always like to ask people is when you're at a party, cocktail party, I know this is going back a couple months. When someone says, what do you do? What is your go-to answer?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I'm an actor, actor, actress. It depends on who I'm talking to, what their knowledge is of the field.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Who gets actor and actress versus, as far as experience goes and knowledge of the field? I'm curious.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
If they're older, I typically say actress. If they're younger, I say actor. It's a doctor, doctress sort of a thing. Somebody working in the profession of acting.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
I think many reasons we wanted to bring you on is because I think when we think of freelancers, Aaron and I, were in advertising and marketing and branding. And so we're thinking designers, and writer, copywriters, and even editors, and sound designers, but we don't really think of actors as freelance, and yet you are. Right?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
We are so freelance. It's about time you guys included us in the club. It's just like we've been standing outside the window just being like, oh, it looks so warm and cozy and communal in there. I wish we could have friends like that.
Host: Aaron James:
One of the things I wanted to ask is clearly you have multiple streams. You have different things coming and going and that type thing, how do you manage that? How do you build out your schedule? Let's say of opportunities and figuring out what to take, what not to take.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Well, it depends on where you're at in your career. I'll jump back and say that I think one of the reasons actors have never been considered as freelancers is they feel tied to so many things. They feel tied to productions. They feel tied to agents, or whatever it is. It's this strange ambiguous thing. They don't sit in a room and pull their hair out as they're trying to meet a deadline or get a drawing done or write script or whatever it is. And so it almost feels like, well, actors don't need the label of freelancer because they've got other things. We are absolutely self-contained. We are in control of our own business. Everybody that we bring in to support that business is just that. You're bringing in support personnel essentially to help you move your business forward, but you're your own entity.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I think as far as choosing jobs, when you're younger or newer in field, you are working for experience just like a lot of things. You might do spec work. In fact, I feel like Andrew, I feel like maybe we met on a spec commercial like originally. Just nobody got paid. You're still not getting paid. You work for Wieden+Kennedy. Don't get paid.
Host: Aaron James:
For like $25 an hour.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Just kidding. We need to respect our fellow freelancers actually, because they are viable, viable, contributing members of this society. I'm sick and tired of people feeling like freelancers are pariah. It's gig workers. It's just like hardest working people out there. Nothing is secure. You are working because you love building and creating your own track and doing something original. I think that that needs a lot more support and needs to be commended a lot more than it is. Then when you're more advanced in your career than you just do jobs for money.
Host: Aaron James:
You mentioned the team. You don't have to like name names, but who's on your team? What are the roles that you have around you? The specialist to support what you do.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I've been working with my agent, her name is Mary Dangerfield. We've been working together since 2008. She's my overall agent. For commercials, and theater, and film and TV, voice, all of it. I've also had commercial agents. I've had managers. I've had publicists. They all serve that role of getting you out there so that you're available for bigger jobs. The more of a support team you have around you, the more professional you seem and the more of an investment you appear to be. I have to generate that image of investment myself. I have however many years. I've been working professionally for 22 years in this field. That goes along every job you do, they become a part of your team. It's this long resume of people that are there to vouch for your work. But you have to be willing to fail so wonderfully. I think my agent who I love, every job we go into, she's like, well, we could ask for this but you could also lose the opportunity to work on this job at all. I'm like, let's go for it.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
When you say, ask for this, is it always money or is it all sorts of different stuff?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
No. All sorts of different stuff. I'm not to the point of M&M's but whatever it is. Let's ask for a co-star role or a guest star role. It's bumping up your influence in the world so that the next job sees you in that light rather than the light that you're coming from. Right? You could be asking for too much, but also, if you have the work to back it up, just own it. They could tell you no. But also, just take some creative risks. If that doesn't work, then create your own work.
Host: Aaron James:
That's how I got fresh green, fresh juice on set once. You just got to ask for it sometimes. You know?
Host: Andrew Dickson:
I'm curious that sort of at this stage of your career and maybe it's always remained consistent or changed. How much of your time is spent doing the work versus how much of it is doing all that, doing the business work and doing the added training and doing all the stuff that gets you the work?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
That's always been one of my favorite parts of the job. Whether it's don't look at it right now because it's awful, but building my website or taking the classes or getting things generated, I love generating things. That is really exciting for me because I can be kind of the engine of my train. I don't have to work so hard in that capacity because all of my time is taken now with more technical scripts or longer scripts or more responsibility when I get on set. My preparation now, the time it takes to prepare has taken the place of that. Or I'm working so much that I don't have time to put into those other aspects, but I still try to keep training. I say for anybody, certainly actors, actors, the best ones I know are still in class. People train their entire lives. It's a muscle that you have to keep working.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
I think that's something a lot of freelancers kind of forget in the creative industry. I think a lot of people feel like I've arrived, I got my job at Wieden+Kennedy or whatever. There's something to be said about doing, but I love this idea of constantly learning more and training and sharpening those skills, which obviously is so important for actors.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Yeah. Like I say, we're in control of our business. Somebody is always going to be coming up behind you. Right. They're younger. They're fresher. They have instincts that are whatever, fresh. It's really interesting to see how my career and my life has changed in that aspect as I've matured in this business. Keeping things springy is really important, but also just acting is all about listening. You have to really be able to listen and respond and be present and available. I think across the board for any profession, especially for creatives, keeping yourself open, vulnerable, present, able to receive and able to give only makes your work better.
Host: Aaron James:
What do you like about working on commercials? I knew that was kind of a loaded question.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
No, I'll tell you. I think I prefaced, we had exchanged emails. I was like, sometimes I'm overly honest. I like working on commercials because they're usually really fun. That's where the creatives put all their energy, right, in the commercials. They're often really zany, or have great set decoration, or they're usually just really fast and kind of dirty, but also you just like, get in. Everybody is on this vibe. They're just amped up and you just hit the ground running. You knock it out of the park. You can work for 15 minutes, an hour, and walk home with an awesome paycheck. That's what I like.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
What's your favorite kind of work? I mean, I think like many working actors. I mean, I think looking at your career, you've done big movies. You've done indie movies, you've done TV, you've done commercials, you've been infomercials, you've done theater, so much theater. I mean, how much of that variety is because you just love the opportunity and how much of it is the opportunity? I mean, what a fun kind of cornucopia of opportunities to choose from and get to experience.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
They each offer something different. Theater is wonderful for its community. Theater has always been known for its community. You build these really intense families that you have maybe over six or eight weeks or actually longer, three months total probably. You're working towards something and it's just these creative juices. You get to see people at their worst and their best. I think that's always been fun and nourishing and just great about theater. Then you perform in front of a live audience, which is always unique and different and hopefully dangerous. I love projects that are just a little bit dangerous. One of my favorite productions that I worked on for film was what started out as a web series and then it became a film project and then it caused all this controversy and it's crazy. It's called The Record Keeper.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
We filmed in Page, Arizona on the edge of the Grand Canyon at Horseshoe Bend. We were on this thousand plus foot cliff, and nobody had ever filmed there. I don't know how we got permission to film there. We are filming on the cliff's edge, like sitting, having tea. It's crazy. It's so beautiful. We have all these screens in place to filter the light but the wind is blowing so crazy heavy and I'm holding it. My muscles are all popping out, hoping it doesn't go over the edge and take me with it. We put together this beautiful scene. It is just beautiful, beautiful work. It was so fun and crazy. Who does that? Those are the projects I love to do.
Host: Aaron James:
That sounds like my worst nightmare.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Totally.
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Host: Aaron James:
I feel like freelancers kind of go down this path and it's never the same, but where you kind of go from starving and kind of desperate for that breakthrough or that just push through into this success land. I know it's not like start here and here necessarily, but what was that like for you?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Was, it still, I'm still, we never, it's always that way. I think there's always that drive for, just that grit. You want to just create or build or do something and just make it matter and make your life matter. I don't know what that is. That's probably why people don't like actors, I guess, now that I think about it for a minute. I think I stumbled into that position. It was a matter of, again, having experience, having all my ducks in a row, meaning all my materials were there. All my promotional materials were there. I kind of reached this point where I was able to get over my own insecurities. I still have so many, but able to get over them enough to take some more risks and step a little further outside of my comfort zone. I think when you reach that point and you have all the materials, you're rewarded for that. That's what that transition is like for me.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
You know, like in my world, the most successful freelance creative director copywriters will not even bashfully share that when the phone stops ringing or the inbox stops filling up, they panic that they will never get another job again.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Totally.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Especially for actors. You're either working like 15 hours a day or not, or not for a paycheck in a production. How do you navigate that? How do you deal with it emotionally and fill your time when you're not working on a production?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Because I love what I do, I've given myself the mindset that I can do it anywhere under any conditions. I've been a clown on the side of a road promoting a flea market and I saw it as a performance opportunity. Like, I'm okay going back there. I know who I am and so I feel like giving myself permission to exist at any point in the spectrum takes away some of the fear, which takes away that need to control, control that fear and be super driven when the phone stop ringing. I look at it as an opportunity to relax because I get to do some self-reflection and figure out, okay, so how do I need to shift gears? Or where am I at in my career that this isn't kind of opening up for me right now? I had that experience last year, last November.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I had been working for a year solid, six, seven days a week. All of a sudden everything stopped and I couldn't get a job. There are all sorts of things that fluctuate. I am a light-skinned African-American woman of mixed heritage, and that comes and goes. I've been out. I've been in. I've been back out again. With the beautiful amazingness that is moving towards darker skin, melanin power, also recognizing, okay, this may just not be my time. How do I shift gears to support myself? A grant opportunity came across my desk. I've never applied for an arts grant in my life. I've never felt like I was that kind of artist. I decided that I had absolutely nothing to lose. I was not working. I had the time to write a grant and I applied for a grant with the Theatre Communications Group, which is this huge theater collective out of New York.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I found out last February that I received a $25,000 grant, which is what helped facilitate this amazing equipment I'm talking to you on because the grant is there and it's established to help artists, actors in their careers create longevity. I decided, one of the ways I've always wanted to support myself more in my career, voice work that I had used to do and I haven't done in a long time just because I haven't had the equipment.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Congratulations.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
You.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Awesome.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Don't tell the IRS, just kidding.
Host: Aaron James:
It'll be between us. With all the exposure to production across all these different kind of film and theater and that type of thing, have you been attracted to other roles like directing or any of that or writing or any of that?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Yeah. I love storytelling. I've always, always. I've always been really interested in how do you manipulate stories, how do you manipulate bodies, how do you manipulate voice and move your audience. I've always used myself as the instrument for that. I am absolutely interested in seeing how I can affect that, create that same effect with other people's bodies. I'm really opinionated. I've gotten to the point in my career where I piss off a lot of directors because I think I know more. I have to keep my salary in check because guess what? We all have our own journeys. You may know your story, but you don't know anybody else's. Get out of their way.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Very cool. Well, so thinking about those directors, I think we've got directors listening, especially-
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I love them.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
You've got theater directors and film directors, but I think especially in the commercial world, maybe where there are directors that aren't as attuned to what an actor needs. What do you need? Through pre-production and rehearsals, but especially on set, what do you need to be successful?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
They should come fully loaded. Right? Always. Clarity, also, I think on commercial shoots, a lot of shoots, a lot of shoots, there's always this such enjoyment around the equipment that the actual performance in front of the camera often gets lost and the actors are just expected to bring it but I'm going to put all my attention to what's happening around it. I really enjoy working with people who understand that there's a story in front of the camera and we're there to help you tell it as a collaborator with you. I don't need to have my handheld. I don't need to have any special, soft voices, but just saying, hey, I'm so excited you're here. We're going to make some magic today. Here's what we have. Here's what we're trying to achieve. This is our goal. Let's do this. I think that that really goes a long way.
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Host: Aaron James:
Freelancers, oftentimes we're lonely. We're on a rowboat out in the ocean.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Totally.
Host: Aaron James:
That's a big part of what we're doing here or what Andrew and I are trying to do. One of the things that I see is there's a lot of professional organizations that are out there to try to maybe solve that or that type of thing. With SAG for instance, do you feel like that has helped with community, or do you feel like that's helped your career or has it been just like a big fee to kind of keep current with the Screen Actors Guild?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I guess that's one of the things about the differences, right? For actors, performers who are a part of a union and those who aren't a part of the union. We have somebody to watch our back and that's really valuable. There have been so many instances where you may say, hey, that doesn't feel right. I'm pretty sure that's illegal what you're doing, or that's really going against some code of ethic. I really appreciate them. I belong to SAG-AFTRA as well as Actors' Equity, which is a theater union. I should have mentioned those as my team, but it's more and more I'm appreciating it. But I don't know if it supports community. I think it just supports being able to do your job and feel like you're not going to get screwed every time you turn around.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Yeah. That's something really most freelancers don't have is that. It's funny because obviously actors, directors, editors, they have unions. They have representation. In Aaron and I's world, it's just kind of us. You're always getting into these sticky situations and we don't really have any bylaws to refer back to or quote back to people. Thinking too, you touched on this a little bit already, but you know, Hollywood in particular but really every industry has had a really big reckoning around the Me Too movement and abuse. Then of course, the lack of diversity, especially behind the camera and recognition and opportunities. Are you seeing movement? Are you seeing change?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I see representation of change. I see that. I recently had an experience where I got a big job and I'm the only talent. It's over a week's worth of work. The client is very specific about the look that they want. I personally can't achieve that look on my own so you rely on hair and makeup, wardrobe. I asked them, I said, "So hair and makeup, is that a person of color? Preferably Black." They said, "No, we've already chosen hair and makeup, but we haven't chosen our wardrobe stylist. If you have any suggestions." I'm like, I see what you're trying to do. I see that maybe you think I'm asking for representation on set just as a blanket thing. I'm asking specifically for me, because the majority of my jobs on camera I am working with hair and makeup stylists often in Portland who don't have experience with ethnic hair or anybody other than Caucasian, because they don't have to. They refer to the Black hairstylists to do Black hairstyles and White hairstylists aren't asked to do that. I still haven't rectified that.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
I'm sorry that happened. Again, for most freelancers, we're maybe judged on our looks but it's not, you know. I think what's so different about what you do, what actors do is it's you, it's your body, it's your personality, it's your voice. It's your ability to change and manipulate, inhabit these different roles. What's that like? Given that added pressure of constantly knowing that you're already being judged when you walk in the room, not necessarily when they're looking at your designs. The moment they would visit your website.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I really try to say, you know, my work is and what I do, just like anybody else, right? I'm also very human. I've got weird things going on with my teeth. I've got pimples. Sometimes I weigh more than other times. But when I am working, when I am on set, I try to absolutely represent that to the best of my ability so that these things that are long lasting and out there are representative of the work that I do. I want to keep as human as possible because that's how you get in touch with telling stories. I do try to weigh, lean heavily into the human side of things and show all of my flaws because I think that's important to see.
Host: Aaron James:
What kind of role does social media play in your life personally?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I hate it. I hate it. I have several.
Host: Aaron James:
Would you be willing to share out a link to the podcast?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Yes, I would. Definitely.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
What are some of your favorite roles that you've ever had? Because of the recognition and experience or just getting to inhabit those characters.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
I have to say Twilight. Working on the film Twilight, the first of the series was a really joy, a big joy in the process in general. It was talk about that communal feeling. We had no idea it was going to be so big. It was just really fun. Working with Catherine Hardwicke was such a blast. She's just crazy little bundle of energy and just a joy. I love Portlandia, oh my God. I love working with Fred Armisen. Fred, if you're listening, God, let's do another project together. Carrie, I love you so hard. It's all of my favorite people. It's people I've worked with for years and years and years getting to play and laugh. That was just such a fun, brilliant project.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Then maybe lastly, when you have people who are starting out as performers or actors, what's the most important thing? What are those pieces of advice that you say like, learn from me? Do this or don't. Definitely don't do that.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Yeah. I think don't sell out until you're older. You got to earn selling out. Don't expect anything is going to be easy. It is not going to be easy. You're going to fail. You're going to be starving. The saying that it's all about who you know, I think that people misunderstand that and believe that it's about going out and pressing palms and meeting a lot of people in the business. It's not. The people that you are working with right now are the people who you will know down the road in your career that will make opportunities available to you. Invest in your relationships now and work hard and be present and be beautiful in your work. Be authentic in your work, discover your voice. Really don't buy into the hype because it is always changing. You can bring the business to you with who you are, just develop it. Be the best you you can be, and that will be enough.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Can we book you for a college commencement speech?
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Yeah.
Host: Aaron James:
I can feel like I could do this once a week.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Me too.
Host: Andrew Dickson:
Well, Ayanna, what a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much for joining us.
Guest: Ayanna Berkshire:
Thank you so much, Andrew, Aaron. It was such a treat. I love talking with you and I love talking about freelancing, so thank you.
(transition)
Aaron James:
All right, it's time for the Q&A time with Mt. Freelance.
Andrew Dickson:
All right, Aaron. We've actually, we've got a question written in through someone who found us on Booooooom. That's boom with I think seven o's. If you're looking for some design inspiration. Question for each of you, what was a big mistake you made that you learned a lot from as a freelancer?
Aaron James:
Wow. I finished about a three-week project. Over time, I was paired up with a different writer who I'd never worked with before. Over the course of that three weeks, we got to be close. Then I had the courage asking him what his rate was on this job. I realized that he was making twice as much as I was. Over a three-week period, that was a fair amount. I think that mistake, I wouldn't necessarily call it a big mistake but it was a huge learning moment for me to say, just to realize that, A, I'm doing work that's just as valuable as him and contributing to the success of this pitch just as much as he was. Also, rates and what you charge is something that can change, something that's flexible. I think there's this part of us like maybe we get one little number in our head and that's just our rate and that's our hourly or whatever. I think at that moment I realized I really need to think differently about compensation. That was a huge breakthrough for me. It was a loss at the beginning, but obviously it's turned into quite a valuable lesson over time.
Andrew Dickson:
I had an awesome first year of freelance and I worked through. My first summer, I got laid off in May. I had like through the next May, I was just killing it. Then like no work June, no work July, no work in... I just freaked out. I made the mistake of not going on vacation because I was like, I'm going to be working all summer. We had no fun plans. Then sure enough, when I finally got a job literally 10 weeks into freaking out, it was from an old partner. Someone I had been partnered with who had gone on to be an ECD at another agency. He's like, I just found out you were freelance. I had no idea. He literally said, if I had known, I would have been hiring you for like ever since you went freelance. I was like, wait a minute. I told like other freelancers, but I forgot to tell all the people that I'd worked with at Wieden+Kennedy had gone to other places. I was like, oh yeah, I should really make sure that I'm more vocal about where I'm at and what I'm doing.
Aaron James:
One thing I think that there was like this idea like, hey, we don't want to. I'm kind of hedging my bets. Maybe the right full-time job will come around, so I don't want to say that I'm freelance. I think things are so fluid right now between full-time freelance, direct to client agency, all that kind of stuff. I think you can just put out into the world what you are in the moment and what you're looking for, and change your mind later if something else comes along. But I do feel like we're oftentimes kind of sheepish about telling people we're freelance.
Andrew Dickson:
Also, hot tip. If I'm a recruiter, it's so much easier to hire a freelancer full-time than like poach someone away from somewhere else where they're going to have to give like a month's notice and probably get counter offered maybe. It's really easy to hire a freelance.
Aaron James:
Right. Basically, we answered the question about the biggest mistake by kind of twisting it and turning into positive patting ourselves on the back. Good answers.
Andrew Dickson:
That's what we do as freelancers.
Andrew Dickson:
Mt. Freelance Podcast is handcrafted by producers, mixers, and sound designers of Digital One, Portland, Oregon. Executive Producer, Eric Stolberg. Post-Producer, Kelsey Woods. Assistant Engineer, Tristan Schmunk, who also created the theme song and incidental music. To learn more about Aaron, Andrew, and Mt. Freelance, visit mtfreelance.com. Thanks for listening. May your day rate be high and your vacations long.
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