RELEASE DATE: June 17, 2021
Mt. Freelance Podcast - Episode 110
Bob Smith
Freelance Designer & Godfather of Nike Sportswear
In our tenth episode we sit down with the one and only Bob Smith, a designer who tells stories through apparel design. He shares how he came up with idea of a Nike Pendleton collaboration, where his own brand Ore-Cal comes from, and how he convinced Nike to stop exclusively focusing on performance and create what would eventually become Nike Sportswear.
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34 Min
Episode Recap
In our 10th episode Aaron James and Andrew Dickson welcome designer and apparel designer, the one and only Bob Smith to the Mt. Freelance podcast.
Like so many designers, Bob went to the Kinko’s school of design, getting his start making band posters and fliers for the deli he worked at. This landed him a short stint at the Wieden+Kennedy studio before getting a job designing t-shirts at Nike in the late 1990s. He couldn’t help but notice Nike was exclusively focused on performance.
So, he found an empty office, transformed it into a coach’s office with the help of the Home Depot and filled it with vintage Nike apparel and his own designs. While his immediate superiors were annoyed he wasn’t cranking out enough t-shirt designs, he eventually convinced the company to launch Nike Sportswear, an instant success that landed Nike on fashion runways and in stores like Barney’s.
He shares that story with us! As well as how we came up with the idea of a Nike + Pendleton collaboration to benefit the American Indian College Fund, and why he left New Balance to create his own brand, Ore-Cal Sportswear.
Not only is Bob a great designer and storyteller, he’s got loads of advice and insight into the creative process. Hear him explain why “a good idea is a good idea is a good idea”, how his rule of “complain for 10 minutes then shut up or do something” about changed his life, and why freelance is a series of micro-decisions.
But our favorite might be “just because you like making pies doesn’t mean you should open a bakery.” That’s exactly why Aaron and Andrew are freelance and started Mt. Freelance and aren’t running our own agency.
Bob Smith
Episode 110
Intro:
This podcast is brought to you by Digital One. Tell your story, connect with your audience and build your brand with an engaging podcast. Learn more at digone.com.
(Theme Song)
Andrew Dickson:
Aaron. Welcome to our podcast.
Aaron James:
Well, thank you, Andrew. It's great to be here, isn't it?
Andrew Dickson:
It is. Why are we doing this?
Aaron James:
Everyone said, "Don't do it." So we said, "Hey, let's do a podcast."
Andrew Dickson:
And what are we going to do today? What's this all about?
Aaron James:
Well, I think it's important to let other people kind of share their journey and their secrets and their hacks around freelance. Mt. Freelance digs in on the business and the kind of the practical side of running a freelance business. There's a lot of people that do a lot of different things as freelance, and we're going to put them all on one podcast together.
Andrew Dickson:
Are you suggesting that we are about to bring in an experienced creative freelancer and interview them?
Aaron James:
Yes, I believe so.
(Transition)
Aaron James:
Okay. So Andrew, have you heard of this little company that's out... It's near us in Beaverton called Nike?
Andrew Dickson:
Nike? Yes.
Aaron James:
Yeah. So today's guest, it's very fair... In fact, I actually asked a former executive at Nike, a former kind of influential executive. I said, "Is it fair to call Bob Smith the godfather of Nike sportswear?"
Andrew Dickson:
What'd he say?
Aaron James:
He wrote back a one word email that said, "Absolutely."
Andrew Dickson:
Oh, that's even better than yes.
Aaron James:
Bob Smith:
Thanks for having me.
Andrew Dickson:
So tell us. We know who you are, but tell us who are you and what do you do?
Bob Smith:
I do a lot of everything. I do branding design. I do apparel design. I love telling stories about designs and companies and I-
Andrew Dickson:
Are you a freelancer?
Bob Smith:
Yes, I'm a freelancer.
Andrew Dickson:
Were you a creative kid? And how did you sort of get maybe first aware of branding and just [crosstalk 00:02:28]?
Bob Smith:
I was like a little car factory. I was building model kit cars, probably at the rate of like one a week. I just loved the way the cars looked. And even now when I go back and look at funny cars and dragsters from the seventies, it was just, there was a really cool aesthetic to it all, right?
Andrew Dickson:
And they're covered in brands.
Bob Smith:
And they're covered in brands. You'd get stickers and you'd trade them with your friends and you put them on your bike and all that stuff. And it's kind of like what you do with bands today. So I was really into that stuff. So, I think looking back on it now, that's kind of how it started. It was probably in high school. I was working on a car in Portland and I discovered Formula One. It was like, "Oh wow, there's all these new brands from Europe, but who are these people?" Anyway, so I realized that's what I was really attracted to was just all the design. And then later on, when I would get jobs, like maybe I got a job at a deli, I'd do all the signage. I was always drawing and all that stuff, so at a certain point, they asked me, "Hey, can you do our ads for us?" I go, "Yeah.
Bob Smith:
Around that time, in high school, I started playing music. I played drums. You know, I got out of high school, I started playing in bands. You do the posters, you do the cassette art. All that stuff. And it's just like, the more you do it, the more you start hanging out with people that do the same thing, the more,.. It's just kind of like that really cool thing that happens where all of a sudden you're hanging out with creatives, right? Artists and dirt bags and it's just, I just, I loved it. I was really, really into it.
Andrew Dickson:
Did you have any kind of formal training?
Bob Smith:
Uh-uh (negative).
Andrew Dickson:
Did you go to school for this? Even, maybe like a high school teacher-
Bob Smith:
Yeah. No.
Andrew Dickson:
... that saw something there.
Bob Smith:
Yeah. I don't know. I've always read. I've always hyper consumed anything I'm really into. I tend to go down these really intense rabbit holes when I'm into something. It took me a while to realize that that's how I learn and accept that. But I was really hard on myself and I was coming up cause I was like, "Oh, shit. Yeah, I didn't go to art center or I didn't go to, you know, wherever. I'd just always done it." So, I was a walk-on at Nike in the early '90s, which turns out was the perfect time to be a walk-on at Nike because they were just starting to really kind of come into their own. And so I tell people I went to the university of Nike.
Andrew Dickson:
Yeah, how did you get from designing the occasional ad for the deli you were working at to a job at Nike?
Bob Smith:
I knew everybody.
Andrew Dickson:
Only the biggest apparel and marketing company around.
Bob Smith:
I had a girlfriend who worked there, and I knew people, and I have a way with words and I kind of, I don't know... Whatever. I don't know how I got on, but it was... I had a portfolio of the work I'd been doing with the bands I'd been in and just stuff like that. And they were just starting to blow up and they were hiring people, and the people that were there kind of got me and that's thing about me. Either you get me and you love me or you're horrified me and you never want to see me again, but I can live with that. But that's kind of how it happened.
Bob Smith:
I got hired on as what they call a product graphic designer, which is basically, you're just designing t-shirts all day. It was a fun, little pirate ship. There is probably a dozen of us. We kind of did everything together. We traveled together and we all kind of raised families together. It was a really fun time to be there. There was also tons and tons and tons of opportunity because it was just like, they're just, they were kind of like my son says, they were kind of building the plane as they flew it. You know?
Andrew Dickson:
What did that feel like to be part of Nike when it was really going through that big explosion?
Bob Smith:
Again, it's like that thing you said. When you're a kid, you look back... When you're in it, you're like, "Well, okay. Yeah, it's cool." Then you look back on it after you leave, You're like, "Wow, holy moly. This is the thing I was doing." Right?
Andrew Dickson:
So, you're at Nike. You've been working on the t-shirt, on product design and an opportunity came across your path and something clicked. Can you tell us about that?
Bob Smith:
Yeah. It was really cool because I'd been doing t-shirts. I had been there for five or six years, and like a friend of mine says, when you're earning, you're learning and when you're learning, you're earning. So, I've been learning how to be an efficient worker, right? Rather than taking like three days to do something that made me 10 bucks. Right? You learn how to like, Hey, here's deadlines. You got to get this amount of work done in this amount of time. That kind of thing. So I learned how to be more efficient as a designer. After a certain point, you realize, "God, I'm just designing graphics." You kind of get... I got bored. It was at that point, I started thinking, "There's a lot to this institution, this establishment, that isn't getting across to the public."
Bob Smith:
At that time, that was in the mid to late '90's, they're really super focused. And their point of differentiation with the other companies, other sportswear companies was authentic, athletic performance shoes and apparel. I mean, to the exclusion of everything else, right? We're going to make the best high performance most space-age suit ever. And I'm not an engineer. I'm not a technical guy. I'm a stylist. And I thought like, "That's great. You can do that. But like, what people really, really also want out of this company is the story." It was basically started by a bunch of hippies in the '60s and '70s and seventies. They were counterculture. They're very, very, very, very real. I remember when I started, it was almost kind of creepy how anti-Adidas they were.
Bob Smith:
Adidas was the enemy. They were the corporate behemoth, the hedge enemy, which is ironic when you think about it now, but real talk. That's really, it was kind of like, yeah, we're here to take sport back from the corporations. One of the jobs I had when I was playing in bands was I did visual displays for Nordstrom and Myron Franks and Fred Meyer's. I did displays. I built sets. And I thought, "Hey, you know what, this is something I can do, and it's just so crazy, it just might work." Right?
Bob Smith:
So, I talked to Facilities. There was an empty manager's office on the floor of the building I was working on. And I said, "Hey, can I have the key for that?" And I built out a display, right? There was a Home Depot down the street on Murray Boulevard where I went and got some pegboard and wood paneling and some AstroTurf. I built an old, basically built out an old coach's office. I got ahold of archives and I said, "Hey, can I borrow some product to put up on the wall," and what they didn't have in terms of apparel, I found some vintage stuff and I screen printed it myself. And I basically built the vision of what I thought this collection should be. And I had a presentation back to the group that it was sponsoring me and they said, "Yeah, this is exactly what we want to do." I had a little pitch book to go along with it, the story telling, "This is what I want to do. These are the assets I want to use. These are the stories I want to tell. And this is how it should be presented."
Bob Smith:
That was probably about a year of lobbying and campaigning, presenting to people like Mark Parker and other people. And, it happened, but it was a lot of lobbying. A lot of risk-taking. I got written up a couple of times for not doing the work I was supposed to be doing, which I didn't care because I was like, "Well, I'm going to get fired anyway. If I don't get to do this." You know what I mean? It's kind of that all-in energy. And you know, I feel sorry for my manager, Jeff Wards. Thank you so much for dealing with me all that during all that time. You know what I mean?
Andrew Dickson:
When you say, "That happened?" What is that?
Bob Smith:
Nike Sportswear.
Andrew Dickson:
Right.
Bob Smith:
And what's funny, because I hesitate to claim too much domain over this, but the plain fact is I had put together this collection. I didn't know what to call it. I called it Reissue at the time because literally I was bringing stuff back from like, you know... I talked to the guy from the Oregon track club and say, "Hey, can we use those old logos from the, remember when Steve Prefontaine ran there? He goes, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And he goes, "Oh, and here's some other stuff too." So you're always getting, right? So I was doing all this fact-finding and it was like, "Wow, this is really cool." I had no idea all this stuff existed. But it needed to be labeled. It didn't need a position. So I was down on Melrose doing some research at the time, doing all the looking at all the vintage shops in LA on Melrose Boulevard.
Bob Smith:
And there was this one rack of old Nike stuff they called an orange label, and I was like, "Oh, that's kind of cool." And the label said Nike Sportswear. I said, "We don't use that for anything. What happened to that?" So, now today, what they call anything that's not performance, they call Sportswear. I'd like to think I had more than a little bit to do with that. Right? So, but-
Andrew Dickson:
That's like half of Nike.
Bob Smith:
Right? Now I can't get them to fucking call me back. So it's, a great story. People love hearing that story. But what it proved to me was a good idea is a good idea is a good idea, period. Right?
Andrew Dickson:
What was the reaction to that Nike Sportswear initially?
Bob Smith:
Well, it was huge. It blew up. It blew up. We started getting our stuff into stores that had never... We got an opening ceremony. I remember there was... And I'm not saying this is all because the design was so good. There were definitely other mechanisms in place. Like we had marketing, they had brought in Mindy Grossman who had been the CEO of Polo jeans, who was a true garmento. She understood how apparel worked and how fashion worked, and she led a lot of this. She saw what I was doing, she goes, "That. We need that." So, if it wasn't for people like that... A lot of these things need someone like that to get them, you need support from someone like that to get these ideas.
Bob Smith:
So I have to give credit where credit is due, but this is early 2000, so we got an opening ceremony. We started getting into Barneys. We got into all the places that we'd always wanted to be with fashion. What I'm trying to say is you never really know what's going to blow up. I think instincts get a bad rap sometimes because it makes it sound like it's petulant or capricious or like [inaudible 00:12:33], but good instincts come from years and years and years and years of training and being aware and then stuff bubbles up, really, from your subconscious, from all those years and years and years of training.
Bob Smith:
So, I think that's probably what was going on with Just Do It. He had the instinct that we need some kind of an imperative here. It isn't just like, "Do your best." No, it's more imperative than that, right? It's like, yeah, yesterday you said tomorrow. It's like that. So, maybe sportswear was the same thing. It was like I knew in my heart that this was something that we had domain over, claim over, it was necessary to tell our story. And all I needed to do is get rid of that foam in the middle between me and senior management so I can get... "No, you're going to disrupt things and you have work you're supposed to be doing." "I know, I know, I know, I know, but this is really important." Right. So, my whole thing is, I guess what I didn't say here is, I'd been there for a while and there seemed to be a malaise that kind of set in among my peers.
Bob Smith:
They were just like, "Well, yeah, the work isn't very fun but we get paid, we get to travel, so we're just going to do the work." And I said, "No, there's got to be something better than this." And it was like, literally like that scene from the movie where the really obnoxious person goes, "Let's build that barn or let's...." So I thought, "This is the thing I can do to keep myself from complaining. Otherwise, I need to go and find other work." I guess maybe I skipped over that. It's like, that's the thing. If you're going to go and do a job, I mean, nobody wants to be around the guy who's just showing up and doing his job. That's depressing. So when I do a job, I want to be able to do the job.
Bob Smith:
If I have to make the paper clips all day long, I'm going to be miserable and I'll make everyone around me miserable. So my whole thing was, "Okay, I get 10 minutes to vent and complain before I have to shut up or go do something about it." So, Sportswear was my thing that... That was my doing something about it. I saw the opportunities. There were channels that people were talking about doing this kind of work, fashion work and brands, but no one was really doing it. And I knew, because I grew up with the story, I knew the story, I knew the people, I had access to the people, that that's what I wanted to do. So, I just kind of went until someone said no.
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Andrew Dickson:
So how did you move? How did you move away from Nike?
Bob Smith:
So, what happened?
Andrew Dickson:
Yeah, and then what came next?
Bob Smith:
It's a great and tragic story, but, so, at the end of the day, Nike was a big corporation, and they had different goals than I did. And I couldn't do what they wanted me to do. They wanted to literally take that idea and they wanted to keep anniversarying it, and making it bigger. And it kind of started sliding back down the hill. The way I felt about it, it kind of started sliding back down the hill into mediocrity. And I was like, "I'm not interested in doing this." So I left, but, wow, what a story. Anyway... But during that time I had thought I was really into this idea of... You know, this is when collaborations between companies had just started, like Supreme has done so well over the last 20 years. I thought, "You know what would be really cool collaboration would be, what if Nike started working with Pendleton?"
Bob Smith:
Pendleton is a hundred years old. They're the lowest tech company in the world, but they have this great history. And here on the other side, you have Nike, which is one of the highest tech companies. How cool would it be if they got together and did something, some kind of a mashup? And it's one of those things where great collaborations, to me, take something that seemed disparate but when you put them together, they resonate at a higher frequency. You get more out of it than the two together. So I thought, "Hmm, that's kind of cool." Then what if we did some kind of a collaboration with them, and then we'd donate the proceeds, because neither one of those companies need any more money, What if we donated, you know, it was a benefit for the American Indian college fund.
Bob Smith:
I remember writing the brief and I said, "Hey, what if we made a wind runner, which is Nike's iconic running jacket out of the Harding or the Chief Joseph Indian pattern that Pendleton has, and we do some kind of technical spin on it." So I wrote that brief. Then six months later, I was gone from Nike, but it became a thing. So, what I'm trying to tell you is, that's how I started working with Pendleton. They said, "Wow, this is really cool. We like your energy. Can you work with us?" When you're doing these projects and you're thinking, "Wow, if I don't give them a sweet deal, I'm never going to get this work." Well, just think twice. Because again, you never know where this stuff's going to go. So, that's just a pro tip there.
Andrew Dickson:
Yeah. Photographers kind of have it figured out, right? Not only did they get hired for a day rate and then they own the photographs. They license them. Whereas I think we're here [crosstalk 00:18:02].
Bob Smith:
That's my forehead.
Andrew Dickson:
You do these illustrations and get paid by the hour.
Bob Smith:
Oh, God, and they're everywhere. They're everywhere. They're everywhere.
Bob Smith:
So, the good news is, it feels good to see that. But it's just like, "Arrgh," and the same with that Nike Sportswear logo. I see that everywhere. That definitely was work for hire, but it's fun to see the stuff out in the wild, but... I've heard that Milton Glaser doesn't get a nickel off that I Heart New York thing. So I guess I'm in a pretty good company.
Andrew Dickson:
What is your kind of take on freelance?
Bob Smith:
Well, I think, you know, it's funny. I have this meta view about it because I Remember my dad. The reason we moved up here is because he came to work for Tektronix and he was what I considered kind of the last of the salary men, where you get, like, they take care of you, you retire, you get a party and a watch and a pension. And I think my generation is the first of the gig economy. Like, you just can't plan on that. Literally the burden of you taking care of yourself after you retire has been shifted to you. Like 401ks, you're in charge of that. It's on you. Dude you figure it out, right? So, I think that was happening anyway.
Bob Smith:
The freelance, now in addition to doing the work, you also have to have all these other skills in place, as well as the creative chops. Now you have to be in your workflow, you have to be in charge of your tax reporting, you have to make sure you're setting money aside. Now that's all on you. The benefit of that is now you're free to do whatever you want to do. With great power comes great responsibility.
Andrew Dickson:
Yeah. And you've had this incredible history where you go from deli shops and Kinko's to Wieden+Kennedy, to Nike, to Pendleton, to New Balance. What does your work life look like today?
Bob Smith:
My girlfriend and I have side-by-side desks set up at our house. She's an apparel designer. She understands the value of what I do. And you know how you kind of get in your own head about this stuff sometimes? You just need someone else to look at it. So, I'll, "What do you think's going on here?" And she goes, "That looks odd to me." Or "This part of information needs to be clearer." So, it's like, and we were talking about this earlier, you just kind of want that person next to you. So like, "What's that command again for an illustrator." You kind of want that parallel person to be there. I mean, so somewhere between a chaotic open space and being Ralph Waldo Emerson, like alone on a lake someplace, there's a happy balance between someone that can keep you going, but not so chaotic that you can't focus.
Bob Smith:
That's my work setup right now. I have that. I work from home. She keeps me honest with my work schedule. She goes, "Should you be sleeping in until 11 every day this week? Don't you have that...?" So, she keeps me honest in the places that are beneficial for me. I'm just picking up... I'm trying to be smarter about how I go about finding work. So I'm not just doing dumb business cards all day long or music posters for 10 bucks for my buddy's band. "No, this will totally get me more work, man. It's just totally..." So my end game at New Balance, or part of the reason I went to New Balance is because I really want to get my paws on the lifestyle stuff, which is like what I did at Nike.
Bob Smith:
So my whole thing is like, "God, it'd be really cool to be able to make like a whole collection of Made in USA stuff there," because New balance still has footwear factories in the United States, which is unheard of. Nobody does that. They have five factories in New England. So how cool would it be to do an apparel collection completely made in the United States using all these old factories and stuff like that?
Andrew Dickson:
Super cool.
Bob Smith:
Right? I mean again, when my arms start going like, it's because the story isn't just cool. It makes sense in that context. That's where I really start getting excited because like, "Wow, what if we... Then... Yeah. And then you can bring this..." Anyway, so...
Andrew Dickson:
So, really like a storyteller, but through apparel design.
Bob Smith:
Yeah.
Andrew Dickson:
It's fascinating.
Bob Smith:
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. But at a certain point, I just realized that I wasn't going to get what I wanted out of it from New Balance. I really wanted to do this really cool collection, apparel, lifestyle, apparel collection, and nobody ever understood it. They were trying to be the next Adidas or the next Nike, instead of being who they were. And it's just like, "Ah, no." It's literally like working with a company that has an inferiority complex. You're just like, "No, you guys could be cool if you just embrace who you are." So anyway, it was at that point, I'd been there for a number of years, I was there for five years ultimately. And it's like, "Why do I keep doing this for other brands?" I did it for Nike and then I lost control of it. Then I did it for Pendleton. That was fun, but you know. And then here I am now again at New Balance, trying to do this thing for someone else.
Bob Smith:
And the entire time I was thinking, "Is it just because of the logo I put on things that makes it gives it value, or it's because of the actual idea?" I remember I was working on a presentation for another collection for New Balance and I took all the New Balance logos off of it. And I thought, "Well, this is just a really cool idea. Why am I handing it over, without even anybody asking me to do it, to somebody else." This is the origin story of OreCal. I literally took something I was doing for New Balance and said, "You know what, I'm going to do this for myself this time." And that's where OreCal came from.
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Andrew Dickson:
And we should mention, Bob, you are wearing what looks like a super vintage sweatshirt that says OreCal, and it's got a sort of a personified state of California and Oregon and they're friends.
Bob Smith:
Yeah, right. They're friends, right? Smiles on their faces, and it says Track and Field Pacific Regionals. I call this the BFF tee. I have another graphic that says Califoregon on it. And I had a sticker of that on my car and someone honks at me and flips me off, like, "Fuck you." I just laugh. I think it's funny that people get so bent out of shape about it. You know what I mean? But to me, it's just a vehicle to tell my west coast story, you know what I mean? And then just to have some fun with it.
Andrew Dickson:
That's cool.
Bob Smith:
One of the funnest moments was I was at a trade show last year in Paris showing the line. An Italian buyer came up to me and, you know, it's a sportswear thing so there's all these brands out there. Big and small. I have my little booth and this guy comes up to me and asks me if this is an old brand that I had brought back.
Andrew Dickson:
'Cause it looks, I mean, if you told me that's a 30 year old sweatshirt, I'd believe you.
Bob Smith:
Right, right, right. So, that's the whole point of that. That was kind of like, I just cracked myself when I got the idea. I was like, "Yeah, this is great." Because I love doing this. Looking at something, finding out where it came from, bringing that story forward, and giving it, meaning. That to me is just like the holy grail of what I like to do.
Andrew Dickson:
Well, what advice would you give to someone who is looking to have a career in design or apparel?
Bob Smith:
Yeah. What's that book called? The E-Myth. The idea is just because I am making pies doesn't mean I should open a bakery. Does that make sense? Like, because when you open a bakery, you're not making pies any more. You're running a business and you're trying to... So what I'm trying to say, as a designer, there are technicians. There's people who are illustrators and they make a business out of illustrating, right? Illustrating is one of the arrows in my quiver. But if I can't do a certain kind of illustration style, then I'll find someone who can do it. Now, there's all kinds of different freelancers, right? If you just want to be an illustrator then obviously you kind of need to find a style that you can do well and efficiently and expediently. For what I do, I think either you need to find a place where you can slot in.
Bob Smith:
And I remember thinking this, when I heard someone talk. A really well established designer a few years ago was talking about... Someone asked him, "How do you get those cool jobs?" And he gave this throwaway answer I thought really did a disservice to the person that asked him the question. You kind of have to make micro choices all the time. This or that, this or that. Who am I going to call today? Because it's really easy when you're coming up to kind of get... You just take lots of easy jobs. Sometimes you can have to take a flyer on something that I feel like is going to get you to a better place or introduce you to a new group of people or introduce you to a new way of working. And I feel like just know the kind of work you want to do going into it and just make sure you do a little bit of that activity every day, because I think it's death by a thousand cuts otherwise.
Bob Smith:
Before you know it, you're working some shitty agency doing shitty work for people. You don't like doing it. And you wonder why you even got into the business in the first place. So I feel like I, if I look back on my career, I realized there was, there was always times where I was willing to get fired. I mean, ultimately. I mean, not maybe not that moment, but like you kind of have to be willing to walk away from a job or a gig or something if it's not what you want to do. I really do feel like just kind of being aware of your choices every day is really important. Does that make sense?
Andrew Dickson:
This is great advice. Not just for people starting out, but I think one of the reasons we started Mt. Freelance is to teach what we learned, but it's also almost telling ourselves some of this stuff too.
Bob Smith:
Right, right, right. Right?
Andrew Dickson:
I think one of the things that we try to advise people to do is to be really intentional about the work you take.
Bob Smith:
Totally, totally, totally.
Andrew Dickson:
And then you can actually go after, which is something you've done, is go after work you want, and I'm sitting here and I'm still... What I do is I field offers and I actually just agreed to a job. I said no three times until finally they just cut the boring part of the job and increased the fee-
Bob Smith:
Oh, wow.
Andrew Dickson:
... and I was like, "Oh fine. I'll take it. But I don't want to do it."
Bob Smith:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew Dickson:
And I'm saying yes to this job, and I don't even want to do it. When you say that, I'm listening too, saying, as freelancers, as creative people, we only have so much time.
Bob Smith:
You only have so much time. Yeah, so, I'm in my fifties now. I feel like... And there's some things that I go, "God, I wish I would've done that differently," but I feel like if I could tell myself anything, it's just be (a) you get this much time, and you have to be intentional about it. You can't just keep... I mean, I think because I was so young and it was like, "Whatever, everyone thinks this way." I really admire people who were very intentional about their choices. And I used to confuse that with being staid or boring, and then I realized there are people like that. But I wish I'd been a little more intentional about kind of what I went after. Later, I did. I realized what I was good at, and then you start realizing it.
Bob Smith:
But I think one of the most important things you can do as a freelancer is really know the kind of work you want to do, and then follow that. And then also realize how much... There's so victim mentality that I see these days, and I feel like, yeah, maybe things don't go your way, but what do you do after something doesn't go your way? You have to be really intentional pretty much every day with every choice you make.
Bob Smith:
Then not hit yourself in the face if you screw up. That's the other thing, is just be kind to yourself. Because that's the other thing is like, "Oh, shit. I shouldn't have done it." Or I feel like, especially as creatives, one of the things I say is one of the good things about me is my heart is always on my sleeve. And one of the bad things about me is my heart is always on my sleeve. You know what I mean? Because it works both ways. The passion, when applied positively, is really infectious. But in the past, when I've fucked up, maybe I've been too hard on myself. Then I [inaudible 00:30:27] for a couple days and I'm like, that's not useful either. So, anyway, that's, that's my 50 cents worth of advice.
Andrew Dickson:
What is the most difficult part of being freelance?
Bob Smith:
When my brother-in-law says my middle name is discipline, unfortunately, my first name is No. So, it's tough to make sure all the receipts are recorded and all the mileage is taken care of, and those sort of things. Every day I have to decide if that's what I want to deal with, or if I want to deal with an unreasonable supervisor, you know what I mean? For me, it's worth it. It's definitely worth it. There's no question about it. It's worth it.
Andrew Dickson:
Bob Smith is on the market.
Bob Smith:
Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm super cute too. You should see me.
Andrew Dickson:
Well, Bob it has been such a pleasure, and thank you for sharing all these wonderful stories with us.
Bob Smith:
Yeah. Oh, I just love having this conversation. So thanks for having me on.
[Transition]
Andrew Dickson:
So now we've arrived to the part of the show where we hear from you, the listeners, and we're going to do a little Q and A.
Aaron James:
Here's a question that came in on Facebook. What are the most important things to have on the first page of your portfolio?
Andrew Dickson:
Ah. Great question. Your name. That's a big one. But what you do. I think sometimes, I think we've actually... You know, one of the fun things about the Mt. Freelance Facebook group for our members is we really encourage people, like, when you're working on your website, post it, we'll give you feedback. Other members will give you feedback. And it's amazing how many times you, even as someone super experienced and has this incredible website, great work, great design, and you have to hunt to figure out whether there are a copywriter or an art director, or a strategist or an account director. So, I think what you do. And then I think when you go, you start looking around, this is your thing, Aaron, but you want to look expensive. You do not want your website to look rinky dink. I mean, if you're charging a high day rate, your website should look slick and sleek and beautiful or whatever your aesthetic is, but it should look awesome.
Aaron James:
Right. And I would also say, make it really easy for people to find out who you are and how to get in touch with you. It's funny, sometimes it's buried or it's so small at the bottom. People are not always looking at it on a computer. A lot of times it's on a phone. Just kind of have some of those things in mind. People should be able to get ahold of you quite easily, if they're looking to hire you.
Andrew Dickson:
And yeah, it's important to remember, if a recruiter is looking to hire someone full time, they're going to really invest some time. But if they're looking to hire freelancer tomorrow, you've got like two minutes to grab their attention. If that. So I think another big thing is, is when you describe your projects and even on your About Me page is make sure you are telling people what you're good at, what you thrive at, what you love doing, so someone can immediately start to understand, "Oh, I can see how this person slots in. They're telling me what they love to do, and that's what I need, so I'm going to hire them." Versus like, know, "I'm a designer who loves to see the world." You're like, "Well, what do you like to design?"
Aaron James:
Right. Yeah.
Andrew Dickson:
Yeah, good question.
Aaron James:
That's good. That is a good one.
Andrew Dickson:
The Mt. Freelance podcast is handcrafted by the producers, mixers and sound designers of Digital One, Portland, Oregon. Executive Producer, Eric Stolberg. Post Producer, Kelsey Woods. Assistant Engineer, Tristan Schmunk, who also created the theme song and incidental music. To learn more about Aaron, Andrew and Mt. Freelance visit Mt. Freelance.com. Thanks for listening. And may your day rate be high and your vacations long.
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