_{RELEASE DATE: June 24, 2021}

Mt. Freelance Podcast - Episode 111

Amy Miller

Freelance Comedian

In our 11th episode we sit down with stand-up comedian and Last Comic Standing star Amy Miller who talks about her creative process, why stand-ups typically don’t use the word freelance, and the collective importance of live events.

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_{31 Min}

Episode Recap

In our 11th episode Aaron James and Andrew Dickson welcome freelance stand-up comedian Amy Miller to the Mt. Freelance podcast who speaks about her creative process, being a woman in comedy and how challenging the pandemic has been for pandemic. Good news, she’s touring again! And you can buy tickets.

Amy Miller is a headlining stand-up based in Los Angeles by way of Portland and Oakland. Prime-time TV watchers will remember her from Last Comic Standing, and comedy fans know her story-based style of comedy based on her own experiences and observations.

When we think of the creative community, we often focus on folks who are designers, photographers and producers. But Amy reminds us that musicians, artists and yes, stand-ups are so obviously freelance that they typically don’t even use the word. It’s just part of the gig.

In our conversation Amy shares some insights into her creative process, touches on the challenges of being both a woman comedian, being a comedian in the pandemic, and even being a woman comedian in the pandemic. And also reminds us of the power and excitement of live events with performers and audiences members together in once place.

Give it a listen and get ready to have some fun.

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Amy Miller

Episode 111

Intro:

This podcast is brought to you by Digital One. Tell your story, connect with your audience, and build your brand with an engaging podcast. Learn more at digone.com.

(Theme Song)

Andrew Dickson:

The song does not lie. You are listening to the Mt. Freelance Podcast. I am Andrew Dickson and with me is my good friend...

Aaron James:

Aaron James. That's my name.

Andrew Dickson:

Did you notice how I set you up there?

Aaron James:

Thank you.

Andrew Dickson:

It was like a volleyball lob.

Aaron James:

Yeah.

Andrew Dickson:

And you spiked it.

Aaron James:

I don't know if that one was in or not, but thank you for the setup. So, Andrew, what is this podcast all about? We've been working on it, and it's kind of our thing. So what are we doing?

Andrew Dickson:

Well, we started that online course and member community for freelancers, and we realized that there are a lot of really experienced creative freelancers that have these awesome stories to tell and this great advice. So we thought we would maybe invite them on the podcast.

Aaron James:

That sounds good. I think we've been doing this long enough, where we've been fortunate enough to brush shoulders with some really interesting folks. And this is kind of a platform for them to share their story, share their insights, their hacks, what guides them in their journey as really being business owners. When you're a freelancer, you own a business, and that's the one thing that we always like to underline.

[Transition]

Aaron James:

Andrew, what is it like to be funny every day?

Andrew Dickson:

I have no idea. I mean, we have our moments. We are very hilarious once in a while.

Aaron James:

Yeah, we've had a couple of good laughs on this podcast, but I wouldn't really put us in the professional funny category.

Andrew Dickson:

I wouldn't pay to see us tell jokes.

Aaron James:

Yeah. But Amy Miller is on today, and she's quite a big deal.

Andrew Dickson:

People pay money to see her be funny because she is.

Aaron James:

Yes. And how in the world did we get her on the show? That's amazing.

Andrew Dickson:

Back in the day, when she was living here in Portland, we performed together. We were in a show called The New Shit Show, which was... You had to do new performance material, which often was a shit show, and so-

Aaron James:

Oh, so it kind of made sense.

Andrew Dickson:

A double entendre, but yeah. But I'm super excited. She said yes.

Aaron James:

Yeah. So they're freelancers too, comedians.

Andrew Dickson:

Yeah.

Aaron James:

If you think about it.

Andrew Dickson:

Unless they are on a show, which she was. She was on Last Comic Standing. So we should ask her about that.

Aaron James:

Yeah. Let's do that.

[Transition]

Andrew Dickson:

Amy Miller, we're so happy to have you on the podcast today. How are you?

Amy Miller:

I'm doing good. Thank you so much for having me. This is fun already. I love it.

Andrew Dickson:

It just started.

Amy Miller:

And we just started, and I feel like I had so much fun.

Andrew Dickson:

So one of the questions we always like to kind of start out with is, is let's imagine a different time when we can go to cocktail parties, and you meet someone and they ask you, "What do you do?" what is your kind of go-to answer?

Amy Miller:

Oh, I say I'm a comedian or sometimes stand-up comedian, if I'm judging somehow what their level of savvy is around comedy. But yeah, I definitely always say comedian, at least for the last five to six years maybe.

Andrew Dickson:

And what's the immediate followup to that? What do people want to know?

Amy Miller:

It's all over the place. I guess the hack... If I'm going to call them hacks. Of the hackiest responses, the most common would be, "What kind of comedy do you do?" which I always think is a funny question. "Are you on Netflix?" No. Or, "Where can I find you?" Or a lot of the time I just get like, "No, you're not." But that's because... I mean, that's for a lot of reasons. Maybe I don't look funny, but I'm also a woman. If I'm just like in the back of your Uber in Kansas City or whatever and you ask me what I do, usually I lie. But the number of times that I've told the truth, the response is often shock and dismay.

Aaron James:

So when you talk to other comedians, do you guys ever talk about the fact that you're freelance?

Amy Miller:

I don't know that we use that word so much. I mean, it doesn't come up very often because it is sort of like implied. I mean, it's like someone saying, "I'm a musician, or I'm an artist." It's like... I'm not calling comedy art. Don't worry. We don't have to go down that road. My art form. But yeah, it's sort of implied. So I don't think it's something that comes up. I mean, we definitely talk about the pieces of being freelance and how to best do that. But it's not a word that we use very often. It's just so much a part of the job.

Aaron James:

Yeah. You probably just don't like the word free, right?

Amy Miller:

Yeah, exactly. I don't like the word lance, actually. It makes me think of moles and I don't... I have sensitive skin, so...

Andrew Dickson:

Part of why we wanted you to come on the show is because I don't think we... We don't really think of musicians and performers and comedians as freelance, but obviously, like you said, it's almost implied. It's so obvious that as a comedian. Is there such a thing as going full-time?

Amy Miller:

Definitely, and I'll get into that. But first, I just want to say since the pandemic, this has been very clear, that it's like we all like as a culture to be entertained and go out and do stuff, but also if you guys starve to death, that's fine too. It's like even though culturally we love to be entertained, there's still this assumption that if you are an entertainer, that is your hobby until you're all the way famous, and then people kind of get that. Like, we get famous people as a culture. They understand Dave Chappelle. You know what I mean? But a sort of mid-level, working comic is still a mystery to so many people.

Amy Miller:

So I don't know. I wish we would talk about it more as a freelance gig or a job at all, because I think it puts a little bit more respect on the gig, and also it creates this assumption that you should be paid for it, and it is a skill, and it's a skill that we work at. So I don't remember your original question now because I just went on that tangent.

Andrew Dickson:

This is a show of tangents. Well, let's talk about that because I think, yeah, a lot of people, they sort of understand what someone who is going to open mic nights and not getting paid means. And they understand Dave Chappelle. But what does being... Let's talk about what does being a working comic look and feel like?

Amy Miller:

That's what's funny too, is there are many ways to go full-time. And I think there's some understanding of a few of those arenas. I think where the mystery lies is kind of exactly where I exist and a lot of my peers exist, which is in the sort of piecing together of a bunch of different jobs. I am historically primarily a stand-up. I mean, that has also been because a lot of my time doing comedy, I had a full-time job on top of it, as you know. I've worked in Portland for years in music venues.

Amy Miller:

So once I left my day job, the bulk of my income came from live stand-up, which is very lucky and I would say very rare, because if you want stability and you want health insurance... And I mean, comedians are people. We want job security and stability as much as anybody else. So a lot of my peers will take that writing job, whether it's late night or any number of stable, full-time gigs that you can get. And then what kind of ends up happening is that those people don't have a lot of time to tour or do stand-up all the time.

Andrew Dickson:

Talk about being on Last Comic Standing. Was that another kind of milestone or boost, and was it helpful or hurtful, and did you get paid? I'm always curious when people go on reality TV. Is it like you're welcome for the exposure, or how did it work?

Amy Miller:

You definitely get paid. I mean, I think anytime you're on, especially in network, you get paid. I love to do stand-up, so for me, I thought it's a credit. That's what we call it in the biz. You're trying to stack credits basically.

Andrew Dickson:

Nice.

Amy Miller:

And a network credit, Last Comic Standing, it does bring people out. People see you on that show, and they follow you, and then they buy tickets to see your stand-up. So for me, it was like whatever happens on this show, as long as I don't blow it, which I didn't think I would, and the show at the time was produced by stand-up comics, Paige Hurwitz and Wanda Sykes. So they weren't out to ruin any lives. They're not Simon Cowell. They were there producing that show to help comics get to the next step. So I saw it as if I do this show, more people will come see my stand-up, and then I can move from host to feature or feature to headliner, depending on what it is. Or I can put together my own little tour, which I ended up doing.

Amy Miller:

I had a lot of fun. I mean, we were staying at a Hilton in LA with our friends and then taping for a couple hours a day and telling jokes for money. And the money is decent. I mean, it's all like day rates. And then if you... The fun part was later. If they end up using more clips of you in the show, like background stuff, they have to pay you. It's NBC. So I got paid pretty much what I thought I was going to make, which is whatever the daily at the time was, like I don't know, 1750 or something, which is great for feeling like I was on vacation.

[Begin Advertisement]

Andrew Dickson:

Here in Portland, Aaron, we can get Stumptown coffee whenever we want. But what do folks who live elsewhere need to do?

Aaron James:

I'm not sure actually.

Andrew Dickson:

They can go to the internet, and they can actually sign up to get a subscription service, where every other Monday fresh, whole-bean coffee is going to be sent to their door.

Aaron James:

Oh, my gosh. So it's like a magazine.

Andrew Dickson:

That you can drink.

Aaron James:

Do they grind it?

Andrew Dickson:

They don't because they don't want any flavor to be lost in the mail. If you enter Mt. Freelance at check-out, you're going to get 50% off your first order.

Aaron James:

Oh, my gosh. Could you bump that up to half off that first order?

Andrew Dickson:

I think I have the authority. Yes.

Aaron James:

Okay.

Andrew Dickson:

Half off.

Aaron James:

Let's do it. Mt. Freelance at checkout at stumptowncoffee.com.

[End Advertisement]

Aaron James:

So as you're navigating all these different opportunities and shows and all this stuff, with Mt. Freelance, we talk about forming a team around you to help with things either that are too much work for one person or stuff that you don't like doing. Who are your teammates?

Amy Miller:

So I have an agent, and I have a manager. And yeah, I mean, they're pretty much what I have. So they sent... Oh, no, that's not true. What am I saying? I also have a voiceover agent and a commercial agent. I just forgot about them.

Aaron James:

Agents.

Amy Miller:

And a literary agent.

Andrew Dickson:

Oh, so you have five.

Aaron James:

The team is growing.

Amy Miller:

I got those very late in the game, I mean, like almost nine years into stand-up. The whole management-agent situation is very strange in this industry. It's a lot of very unfunny people, and many of them are like 17-year-old boys. You know what I mean? Which is maybe also why I wasn't approached a lot because it's like this is like a fully-formed adult woman. Like it's... I don't know. I just wasn't a match. So I was really glad that these two ladies came along.

Andrew Dickson:

Well, talk a little bit about being a woman in comedy. I remember when I was on Facebook for a while there, you were so good at engaging with men and sexist men. And for a while there, you were even doing this thing where you would just write, "I don't understand." Someone would just write this whole tirade, and then you just say, "I don't understand." And you could bait someone who didn't know... who was ignorant for like five or six posts. But yeah, what's that been like?

Amy Miller:

Oh, being a woman in comedy, I mean, that's... There's so many places to go there. I mean, the online thing is its whole own beast. And what I tell my male colleagues a lot of the time is it's pretty much just a part of our lives. Almost every day, you're going to get trolled. Someone's going to say something terrible about you. Yes, it happens to other comedians who are not women, but it's not as constant. You can compare it maybe to street harassment. It's like if you're a dude out in the world and you're walking around, you might have someone yell something at you or fuck with you once a month or something or every six months. But imagine if it's every day.

Amy Miller:

And yes, you can leave it. You can put your phone down. But also we're comedians. We're heavily encouraged to be online a lot, especially right now, and it is a big part of our job. And it is like that street harassment argument of like, if you don't like it, why are you wearing a miniskirt? Well, if you don't want to be trolled, why are you online? Well, no, that's not the question. It's like why do we tolerate this, and why is it so common? And also why do you all, as men, not keep it in mind when you're sort of piecing together why is she so upset about that one thing that someone said at the comedy club? Well, it's the 10th thing that day. You know?

Amy Miller:

So the stand-up stuff, it's kind of got almost worse in the last year because during COVID, it's been nearly impossible to get women to headline. I've turned down many gigs. So it's been funny to see the overlap between misogynists in comedy, who are also willing to perform during a pandemic, and bookers that are fine with having an all-male calendar. I mean, these are kind of the conversations that we have in the background and in the many women's text threads that I am a part of, from comics at my level to much greener to very famous people that you've heard of that I won't mention that are... We text about what's going on, who's touring, and how we're all feeling about it. And it's just... I don't know. It's weird. It's almost worse than ever, and we haven't even been out. So it's like it sucks, but I'm not going to stop doing it.

Amy Miller:

And you know I worked in music for a long time. I worked in... I mean, I saw as much fucking misogyny in Portland independent music venues as I see in comedy. So it's just in almost every job. Unless I'm going to go back to teaching or social work, it's just there, so I can't let it stop me from doing my job.

Aaron James:

I'm kind of curious just... And I don't want to ask the generic, "What's your creative process?" But I am kind of curious how has that evolved when the normal workflow of performing live is stunted?

Amy Miller:

Yeah. So one thing that really changed is I always had stand-up for not only money, but for sort of that validation that I'm like, I'm in this job. I'm doing this job. No one can say I'm not doing this job because I'm getting on another plane to go do this job for money. And it was very concrete. Like, I get up in whatever city. I tell jokes. People laugh. Someone gives me a check, and that's like, okay, I'm working.

Amy Miller:

So in the background while I'm also applying for writing jobs and doing auditions in person and whatever else, it was like... I would say the disappointment stung a little bit less because I was like, "Well, I have this whole thing. I have a whole job doing stand-up," which is not true for every comic. Pre-pandemic, I had a lot of friends who are very funny who want to do stand-up all the time, but just don't get booked for whatever reason, and they're getting turned down from the auditions. So it's like that's very hard.

Amy Miller:

That's sort of the life I'm living right now because I don't have the stand-up piece. I mean, sometimes like Zoom shows. It's not the same. I'm grateful for them. Anything that's money to do my job right now I'm grateful for. But it's been like... It does make you feel like you're going a little crazy, especially because we're all in the house. So everything I do for work is in here. Of course, we didn't think it was going to go on this long.

Aaron James:

Yeah. It was supposed to only last two weeks, right?

Amy Miller:

Yeah, exactly. Two weeks, two months, three months. And I have been lucky. I haven't done a full-time writing job in the past year, but I've gotten a couple just temporary things that have totally saved me and have been really fun. And they've been comedy, and I wrote on someone's... I wrote someone's comedy special. I can't say who it is because I had to sign an NDA. But that's very common for famous stand-ups now, is you just get to a point where you don't even write your own material. You just hire a couple of comics to write it.

Andrew Dickson:

Really?

Amy Miller:

Oh, yeah. And then if it's panned in the reviews, then you can be like, "Well, I had writers." If it's praised, then you're like, "Still got it."

[Begin Advertisement]

Aaron James:

Andrew, you know what's not a lot of fun?

Andrew Dickson:

Root canals?

Aaron James:

Yeah. And what else?

Andrew Dickson:

The pandemic?

Aaron James:

True. But what I was thinking of, and I'm surprised you didn't say this, is buying brand new windows.

Andrew Dickson:

Oh, right. Yeah, that's not fun either.

Aaron James:

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Andrew Dickson:

That would be M-T freelance as opposed to M-O-U-N-T freelance?

Aaron James:

Correct, mtfreelance, and that's after the slash.

Andrew Dickson:

I think I'm going to do that.

Aaron James:

Do it.

[End Advertisement]

Andrew Dickson:

I remember we performed together years ago in The New Shit Show, where... It was sort of a variety show, where people from different genres were all performing new work. And I remember at one point after a show, you were like, "What a terrible idea performing comedy for the first time ever!" So talk a little bit about kind of the life and lifespan of a joke or material. How long does it take to develop something? How long can you use it for? How does that kind of work?

Amy Miller:

Yeah, that show was really fun and, I think, ultimately ended up being really good for me because I would kind of sow the seeds for a new joke that would develop into something more fleshed out later. But in the moment, it probably was scary. I mean, I was also, again, really new at that time to comedy. So I think after you write a joke down, which is for me about 50-50 in a notebook versus my phone, my phone notes, or I'll email it to myself or whatever it is, like after that idea, then stand-up is really weird that way, that you have to have a place to try it out. It's not like songwriting or whatever, where you're like, "Oh, I can sit down with my guitar, and over the next day or two feel like I have a song." You have to go out there and try it.

Amy Miller:

So I think those first couple tries, you want to do it in sort of a low-stakes environment, like on an open mic or a bar show or something, or work it into a longer set so that if it doesn't work, you can go back to something tried and true. So the idea of The New Shit Show was always really fun because it's like there's people here. It's a good show. They're expecting to be entertained, but they're also going in with the expectation that everyone was doing whatever their thing was for the first time.

Amy Miller:

So in the regular world, I guess my process is a seed of a thought, which is often while I'm driving, cleaning, or in the shower. I might write just the beats of it out. Like, here's the premise, and that's funny to me, but what are the beats where I can bake in a laugh at least every 30 seconds? That's a goal I set for myself, and then you just go try it.

Andrew Dickson:

So let me ask you, you were talking about kind of the dream is writing and starring on your own show. Do you have a vision for The Amy Miller Show?

Amy Miller:

I've had several visions at this point. I've had so many visions. Yeah, I mean, I've been through kind of pitch-like goals with a couple of different pilots. It's the same old LA story. Like, things get closed, or they're totally going forward and then they fall apart. I mean, it's all about what some 21-year-old boy executive has decided people want to watch right now. But then they continue to be blindsided all the time. Then you get like a PEN15, and people go nuts for it because it's genius. And they're like, "Oh, I guess people do want to see the story of women's adolescence." And it's like, "Oh, we've been fucking telling you. Like, we're women. We want to watch it."

Amy Miller:

It's a terrible industry. I mean, they just realized that black people go to the movies four years ago. It's like... It's sick. So yes, I have many visions for what I would want that show to be, but it's been several different things. And I just try to stay hopeful, but also at the core of it, see the writing of the thing as also fulfilling and a part of the process and a part of my life, because if everything you write is like I'm doing this to eventually make money on it, it's just soulless. I also like just telling my story, and I love going to meetings. I just love Zooming with execs. That's one of my passions, just trying to be funny. And yeah, I don't know. It's like right now, there's nothing I can do but just see everything day to day and try to be fulfilled by the process.

Andrew Dickson:

That really is great advice because I think sometimes we do get caught up as freelancers, and everything has to be... We have to monetize everything. And there's something to really be said for enjoying the process and, as you said, telling your story.

Amy Miller:

Well, and because people are always trying to dick you out of money. I stole that phrase from Wayne's World, and I use it a lot. But there's so much combat all the time just to get the minimum of what you're worth, that then it is a struggle to remind yourself like also it can be fulfilling to do some things I won't make money on on my own terms. But then I'm over here also fighting for a couple pennies to tell jokes on Zoom, which I don't want to do anyway. You know? So I'd say about six months into the pandemic, I was like, "Okay, I'm not going to do any Zoom shows unless they pay this minimum amount of money," because it gives me anxiety. You're in my house, and I'm telling jokes to you. It's weird.

Amy Miller:

So it's like you're constantly, as freelancers, setting these boundaries for yourself and deciding what you're worth. But then yeah, it also doesn't feel good to put a dollar sign on every single thing that you create or do because that's not why we started doing this. I didn't start telling jokes to have a full-time job. I did it because I thought it was hilarious and weird and it would be fun. So it's hard. It's a hard balance, but it involves a lot of meditation and journaling and therapy and whiskey.

Andrew Dickson:

Boom.

Aaron James:

Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Amy. It was really great to hear from you, and I loved what you shared.

Amy Miller:

Thank you guys for having me. This was so fun, and now I'll sing a song.

[Transition]

Aaron James:

All right. It's time for the Q&A time with Mt. Freelance. So here's another question that came in on our website. Do you put personal information and personal photos and stuff on your Instagram or work, or does it matter if it's kind of a combination, it's blended? Or what's a good philosophy on social media as a freelancer?

Andrew Dickson:

I think a lot of it has... I mean, if you like to live your life out loud and your pets and your lifestyle and your family or friends are kind of part of your whole aesthetic and you want to share that, I think having one place is fine. But as a private person, I think it really makes sense to have a place where friends and family are going to see what you're up to and then having somewhere that's dedicated, whether that's two Instagrams or having sort of... I'm going to really share work on Instagram, and then Facebook or somewhere else is going to be more for family and friends.

Andrew Dickson:

But I think you definitely want somewhere that people are going to be able to follow and say, "Wow! This looks like someone who's doing great work or is fun to work with." I mean, the best way to get the attention of a client is to have them reach out to you. So if you can actually have clients and recruiters and creative directors following you, that just makes that negotiation so much easier when they've reached out to you versus you've reached out to them.

Aaron James:

That's great.

Andrew Dickson:

The Mt. Freelance podcast is handcrafted by the producers, mixers, and sound designers of Digital One in Portland, Oregon. Executive producer, Eric Stolberg, post producer, Kelsey Woods, assistant engineer, Tristan Schmunk, who also created the theme song and incidental music. To learn more about Aaron, Andrew, and Mt. Freelance, visit mtfreelance.com. Thanks for listening, and may your day rate be high and your vacations long.

Outro:

Digital one.