_{RELEASE DATE: July 1, 2021}

Mt. Freelance Podcast - Episode 112

Amanda Needham

Freelance Costume Designer

In our 12th and final episode of this season we sit down with costume designer Amanda Needham, who has worked on movies like Wendy and Lucy and TV shows like Shrill, Portlandia and Baskets. And yes, we’ll mention several times that she has two more Emmy’s than both of us combined.

Listen on Spotify | Listen on Apple Podcasts | Listen on iHeartRadio | Listen on Stitcher | Listen on Pandora

_40 Min

Episode Recap

In our 12th and final episode of Season One Aaron James and Andrew Dickson welcome freelance custom designer Amanda Needham to the show.

Amanda got her start designing costumes for going out at night in her younger days as a club-goer in 1990s Portland, Oregon. Fellow Mt. Freelance podcast guest David Cress gave her a shot at costume design for commercials and she never looked back.

Amanda has worked on independent films like Wendy and Lucy and TV shows like Shrill, Portlandia, Baskets and Chad. Sometimes even on more than one at the same time! Her work earned her all kinds of recognition including winning an Emmy not once but twice.

In our interview Amanda talks about how she got her start, her approach to the creative process and how she does her best work when she is helping to create a character and backstory through costume design.

She also talks about being a mom, balancing work and family and how she was initially supposed to make 14 costumes for Shakira’s Super Bowl performance but had to make 50 when the performer decided all her dancer’s needed to wear them.

And that’s a wrap on Season One. Thanks for listening.

Back to Podcast Home

Amanda Needham

Episode 112

Intro:

This podcast is brought to you by Digital One. Tell your story, connect with your audience and build your brand with an engaging podcast. Learn more @digone.com.

[Theme Song]

Andrew D.:

Welcome to the Mt. Freelance Podcast. I'm Andrew Dickson with me. Here is Aaron James.

Aaron J.:

Hello, Andrew. How are you?

Andrew D.:

I'm great. Why are we doing this podcast again?

Aaron J.:

I don't know. Let's just say Andrew and I, we have been freelancing for a couple of decades combined. We've had the pleasure of working with some really great people and learning a lot of great things and it's time to bring those to the inter webs.

Andrew D.:

Aaron, how many Emmy's have you won in your career?

Aaron J.:

Well, how many have I won or how many have I been nominated for?

Andrew D.:

Let's go, nominated.

Aaron J.:

Okay. Yeah. None

Andrew D.:

In the early part of my career, I had no Emmy nominations. And then now in kind of this middle Twilight still none.

Aaron J.:

Yeah. Well, what's kind of funny is you have a background in acting, so are you looking for an Emmy?

Andrew D.:

Yes, if I could find one at a Goodwill, I would certainly pick, scoop it up. But yeah, we are so lucky. Our next guest has won two. She's a costume Designer-

Aaron J.:

And we don't always think of a costume designer as a freelancer, but they absolutely are.

Andrew D.:

Unless they work at a costume store. Full time there yes-

Aaron J.:

If you're working at the Halloween store and then-

Andrew D.:

Even then, it's probably seasonal.

Aaron J.:

It's for freelance.

Andrew D.:

So our next guest is two time Emmy winner. She's worked on Portlandia, Wendy and Lucy, Shrill. So many great shows and independent movies. Amanda Needham.

Andrew D.:

We're so excited. You joined us.

Aaron J.:

Yay.

Andrew D.:

So how are you?

Amanda N.:

Doing good. I'm doing really good. I am doing two projects right now. Two television shows.

Andrew D.:

Are you at liberty to tell?

Amanda N.:

Yeah, so I'm doing Chad, which is a TBS show shooting in Portland, Oregon. And I actually just started a pilot today for Showtime called Big Deal. And it's with Vanessa Bayer.

Andrew D.:

What's the tagline for the show?

Amanda N.:

It is about a girl who grows up with Leukemia and sort of escapes through her illness by watching QVC. Really attaches herself to these people and that's all she wants to do is be a QVC host. So she gets through cancer. She gets through high school. She is doing samples of the local grocery Mart and then basically just says, "F this", packs her bags and goes to audition and gets the job and it just takes you behind this whole QVC world.

Andrew D.:

I'm sold. This is probably a great time for you to explain to our listeners what you do on this TV shows?

Amanda N.:

I am a costume designer. I love analyzing people through clothing. So it really it keeps me interested. I saw an opportunity in Portland to just start styling. So I started styling commercials first, and my first commercial was with David Cross at food chain when he was still running food chain films. And I had no experience, I didn't even shadow or PA anybody. I just said, "This is what I'm doing now." I went to places like The Goodwill and all these secondhand stores. I came back to present this rack and it was like two or three pieces of clothing per person. I explained my thought and why I was... And David Cross is like, "What", pulled me aside. He was like, "Okay. So I think I need to explain a little bit more to you what this is like." We went into more detail and I ended up pulling it off, but it was definitely frightening.

Andrew D.:

Was the options part of that explanation of what he need?

Amanda N.:

Yeah, it is about having options and you're working with so many different people and sizes and it's a lot more complex than just going and buying an outfit for one person.

Andrew D.:

Well, I think maybe people kind of think they understand costume design or styling, but to hear that you... And for people who haven't seen Wendy and Lucy, it was directed by Kelly Reichardt and stars, Michelle Williams. It's really about her and her dog and there's not a whole lot of other major characters. I think that's so illuminating that you got to hang out with them and I'm sure partly it was about choosing the outfit, but really it was probably about kind of figuring out who this character was. And to be part of that process is, maybe a role people wouldn't necessarily think a costume designer gets to be involved in, which seems really fun.

Amanda N.:

Yeah. I don't know that, that happens all the time. I think Kelly is a really intimate director and definitely cares so much about those kind of details and kind of gets inspired in those moments to think about who these people are. I think that's why it's so beautiful that independent film, then television is so fast. With Portlandia it was really intimate because we were going through so many characters and we spend so much time together. I think it was eight or nine years. So there's an intimacy, obviously that is there, but it wasn't, they wouldn't go shopping with me.

Andrew D.:

Give us a sense what that was like because the time you see a show, it's sketch. In one episode there's so many different characters and so many even Fred and Carrie are playing so many different roles and completely different kinds of characters that need completely different kinds of costuming. I think even having worked in production, I kind of forgot what the other departments did. So maybe just even give us a sense of what was like a day for you like on the set of Portlandia or Baskets?

Amanda N.:

Portlandia. Whew. When it first started, I mean, and there's just not resources in Portland. Like you don't go to a costume house and pull all these treasures and it's all there. Like in Portland, you really hunt for it. Like you're thrifting and you're shopping and you're building. But for Portlandia, I would say, it would start in the writers room. We have big meetings and conceptualize these characters and even back then I would go around Portland. I was just going on, walks in Portland again when I had time and take pictures of people who had interesting style or just fun. But Portland really lends itself to pre-creative people and people who are just so free, like being themselves and as a costume designer, it's really amazing to be able to see a lot of that and to see the changes in that.

Aaron J.:

As you've kind of moved through, your first commercial, your first...the first TV show, movies and that kind of thing. How as a freelancer, how, do you get work now? Is it just the phone ringing because of the success that you've had or do you have to kind of put yourself out there at all?

Amanda N.:

I can tell you that when I was first starting out, it was like what the things I would do. Yes. You would email and let people know that you're available or just give them a run. I would give them a like an idea for like what my schedule for the year look like, just to... Because I think that people think you're... especially when you're freelance and especially when you're in television. You prep and shoot that so much earlier than it's released that people see it on TV and think that you're currently working on it. So there's this misconception of you being busy.

Andrew D.:

You're like that was nine months ago.

Amanda N.:

That it was months ago. So it's just kind of keeping in people's view. Those are the building blocks of starting out. I think I got into a space where my why is wanting to do everything and now I'm starting to... I'm telling you this and I have two shows going on at the same time. So I'm not there totally but I want to get to the place where it's a little bit more thoughtful about not triple stacking.

Andrew D.:

Yeah. In our industry, we call it double dipping.

Amanda N.:

Double dipping.

Andrew D.:

Have you heard that term?

Amanda N.:

Oh yeah. I went to like tripled dipped. That's like where... Because you get to this place where you're like so busy that, that becomes the new hit for you. It's like, "Oh, I only have one show going. Like, this is kind of boring. I need to get like a commercial and then a Superbowl. Why not?"

Andrew D.:

Yeah. Tell us about that.

Amanda N.:

That was actually wild. Camp grizzly called and they said, "Hey, Adidas has this opportunity to do the background dancers for Shakira. Like, do you think you could design something and pull it off?" And I said, "Well, how many dancers?" It was 14 and we agreed, we could pull it off with everything that we had going on. Then everything gets shown to Shakira and she had some notes. One of the biggest note was that she actually wanted all of the dancers to wear variations of these costumes, which meant 50 people. And by then we were already in it. We already said yes and we just found a way, like it was a really intense.

Andrew D.:

How much time did you have at that point to pull it up?

Amanda N.:

A week and we're already in it and they've already seen it and now we just have to do it. And we did, we did it, but now I just don't want that to like up the bar for me it's like, I don't want it.

Andrew D.:

Oh yeah. She can do 50 costumes in week.

Amanda N.:

Yeah, I did it.

Aaron J.:

All the time. It's kind of our specialty.

Amanda N.:

In a week. See, I know, please no.

Andrew D.:

Yeah. I think it's freelancers. I never want to end a job or back out of a job. I think there's always this like... Because what you've got is your word. So if you agree to do something I'll-

Amanda N.:

And that's what it came about for me, it was my word. I said, "Yes." I said, "We could do it." Now granted I said yes to the 14, but then it just kind of snowballed. My word was still on the table and that's what was messing me up so bad. Because I felt like I was failing even though I wasn't, like I said yes to the original and not to the 50. But you just kind of had to swim up stream anyways and figure it out. And it also reinvigorated what I like about designing. I love conceptualizing and building. That's where I really feel the most inspired and the most in line with what I like about designing. So it wasn't all for nothing but oh man.

Andrew D.:

It's pretty awesome to have that realization about yourself. I think a lot of times people end up freelancing either because they don't want a full-time job or maybe they had one and it goes away and you end up kind of saying yes to everything initially. So it's a real gift to know what it is that you love to do. So then you can actually go find more of that.

Amanda N.:

Yeah or just incorporate that more into the shows that I'm doing now.

[Begin Advertisement]

Andrew D.:

It's possible to freelance without coffee, but we don't recommend it. What we do recommend is getting a bag of Stumptown coffee delivered to your door. Every two weeks, they have a host of varietals to choose from.

Aaron J.:

And the beans aren't ground. So the fresh taste doesn't get lost in the mail.

Andrew D.:

I would hate for that to happen. And because Aaron knows someone who knows someone who knows someone, you can get 50% off your first subscription order with the code M-T FREELANCE, that's Mt. Freelance

Aaron J.:

Andrew is that all one word, all caps?

Andrew D.:

It's all caps. So head on over to stumptowncoffee.com and get caffeinated in style.

[End Advertisement]

Aaron J.:

What are some of the things that you would say to someone who really wants to kind of break into the business? Of course, I'm sure you have these conversations all the time, but what are some of the things that you see in someone who you think like, "Oh, Aaron, here's someone starting out, but I think they're going to be successful because I'm seeing these traits in them?

Amanda N.:

That's a good question, because there's not the same hustle that there was. Not to sound like a old lady and kids are different, but it's really so challenging. Because when I wanted something, I wanted it, I was hungry. I was hustling. I was talking to the right people. I was preparing myself and being a little bit more prepared. Like coming into meetings with my boards and knowing everything I could know about the Director and the Producers and the actors. Really putting, investing into the project. And I don't see a lot of that same drive.

Amanda N.:

Yeah. I have people who are working in my team, who I've worked with for a really long time. And they know like what it takes to make the department go, but there's newer kids that come in all the time. And I'm just like, "First of all, don't come in high heels."

Andrew D.:

We're working here.

Amanda N.:

Don't come with high heels. Don't come with like giant nails. Like this is not a fashion show. And this is not really about you. It's about what you can bring to the show. But a lot of that is hustle and being on time and all those kinds of things. I think... I don't know if you can learn hustle anymore, I don't think we're teaching hustle anymore. I think that there's this generation where it's like, it's everything so sensitive and you have to be really careful. But that's not the school I grew up in. It's like, if you were 15 minutes late, go home. You're not... Get out of here. Like you are so easily replaced in this industry. You have to take pride in it.

Andrew D.:

We'll talk a little bit about, you have a husband who is also in this industry and then you guys have kids. What is that like? What are the challenges around that?

Amanda N.:

Wouldn't recommend it. Its really challenging right now, Neil is in New Orleans and I am in Portland, Oregon and it's hard. Like when we were talking about this, we were like, "Well, why don't you take the girls to New Orleans? We're both going to be working. You should take the girl." And I of course was kidding because there's no way I can have do that. But it was like this real conversation of like, I'm the mom, but I'm also a working mom. So like really what's the difference and it's really important to have those conversations, I think around it.

Amanda N.:

But with my position, I can go in and get everybody started and still be present for a phone call or approval of something. Neil's kind of in it. He's the first one there and the last one to leave. So there's a little bit more flexibility with my position. It's important to me to like normalize, I'm a mother and I'm a mother first right now. I love designing and I love being a part of the industry, but it's really important for me to be a good mom to them and not be a...This industry requires so much and I don't know how we got into the 15 hour days being normal. Like it's insane. I wish that would change.

Amanda N.:

The food, I wish the food would change. And I wish there was a little bit more of like a wellness culture in the film industry, because I think it needs it. There is this idea that you just have to, be there and be a hundred percent there, regardless of anything else that's going on in your life. And I know I can't do that. I think I'm a better designer because when I'm there, I'm a thousand percent present, but I'm not going to be there for 15 hours. And most people know that about me.

Aaron J.:

So looking back on your career, what are some things that you think maybe you would approach differently if you had another shot at it?

Amanda N.:

I mean differently, maybe I would have done less maybe... Yeah. Maybe like during the hiatus of not working, enjoying that time a little bit more because there is such a comedown I think that we don't really acknowledge with freelance. And you're going, going, going, going, going, going, and then it's done you stop and there's nothing. In that time, like what do you do? Be busy yourself. You kind of catch up with life and you try to get all the things off your list. You're kind of in a real panic for like what's coming next. And I think if I were to do anything differently, would just to be enjoying that space of not having work.Because it comes and it goes, and yeah, just to be in that constant state of when's the next one coming and how can I make it happen? And instead, just like enjoying the space of having a break.

Andrew D.:

Do you have something that you do creatively to sort of... Yeah, do you do something kind of just to keep yourself creatively engaged when you're not on a job?

Amanda N.:

Yeah. I love writing and lately I've been doing women's circles above the bar, which has been really, it's been so cool to have people come and it's usually around the full moon. And so each moon has a message and we really open up the circle and talk about just really valid things that everybody's going through. That feels like a creative release to me. Yoga, acupuncture, massage, all those things to keep your body in check because production is actually really hard on the body shopping and looking at clothes and my hands get numb now if I work with clothes for too long and I'm like, I think that there's chemical... I know there's chemicals in clothes, but that's another podcast.

Andrew D.:

And we'll close on clothes. So let's all go back and maybe you could tell us a little bit how you... Where did this desire to work with character and costumes start? Like, did you, were you doing high school productions or kind of tell us a little bit about your history?

Amanda N.:

Portland and the nineties was a wild place to be. My best friend was a gay man and we all had fake IDs and I just honestly think, and we would like make our costumes every night and go out. And that's where, like the creativity for design kind of started the idea to think about a character or something you wanted to be that night and sitting all day long, collecting and making and thinking about your makeup and your hair just for a party. And yeah, I don't know. I think I've always been drawn to fashion, but more than that, I think design is about people and like really being able to look at and break down people with cues, from what they're wearing. I just think there's a richness in that. That's why I enjoy because I think people are so interesting and like what do day to day schedules look like, what they morning routines look like? And then I just always feel so fascinated by it.

Andrew D.:

Where was the moment when you thought, "Hey, maybe working in production would be something that I would like?"

Amanda N.:

So Neil and I are high school sweethearts and it really came from him truly because he was super into film in high school and was going to the Northwest Film Center at night for classes while he was in high school. we were watching movies and it just felt like a fun, creative thing to be a part of. And I just started doing it.

Amanda N.:

I had an apartment. My first apartment was when I was 15 and the film industry and fashion industry, it was just, it was fast cash. Like I found a modeling agency slash magazine who would hire me for the weekends and they would just pay me in cash. And so it became this, sustainable way for me to live and it was fun and interesting and you could grow and evolve. It just felt like a fam... There's so many people here who we've been working with for decades and it just feels like a family in so many wild ways. And then my sister got into the... Both sisters are in the industry, so it just really has the learnt us to be able to work together and be creative together. And I love the industry. It's hard. I do. love it.

Andrew D.:

And you've been rewarded, not only did you get two Emmy's, but-

Amanda N.:

Which I will tell you, Fred thinks it's so insane, but... And I kind of do too. I was so naive. I had no idea, television... I was just in this beginning of my career. I just felt like I was lucky enough to be a part of anything. I didn't realize that there was awards attached to it or that I could possibly get one. Yeah and it feels good to be acknowledged for something that was so hard. Building characters from scratch with no money in Portland, Oregon, not LA or New York. It's hard. It's really complicated. So to be acknowledged for that was really a surprise and nice.

Andrew D.:

Yeah. Did it feel good walking across the stage saying thank you?

Amanda N.:

No,

Andrew D.:

Not a performer, right?

Amanda N.:

No.

Andrew D.:

Is it terrifying?

Amanda N.:

Absolutely terrifying. Sick

Andrew D.:

Was it easier the second time?

Amanda N.:

I now-

Andrew D.:

You knew how horrible it was going to be?

Amanda N.:

I don't know. Like nothing gives me more anxiety to think about those kinds of speeches, especially in our current political climate. I just like, how do you even give an acceptance speech?

Andrew D.:

Yeah. Are you seeing...There's been so much in the news the last couple of years, about how both the Me Too movement, but then also just sort of representation is changing Hollywood. Are you feeling that up here in Portland? Are you seeing like maybe even on a show like Shrill seeing more women in positions of, running departments or even directing?

Amanda N.:

Directing, producing, show-running it's great. It's hard, it's sucks it had to be like the Me Too Movement that did that, but I'm glad that there has been some change and there is female Directors on Chad. Yeah. That's kind of rough, but it is exciting that it's created some change and opportunity for women and people of color. Yeah.

[Begin Advertisement]

Andrew D.:

The most creative thinkers and companies use the same fundamental skills to crack ideas. They've just never been taught.

Aaron J.:

Until now.

Andrew D.:

School of Ideas helps teams understand the essential skill set behind coming up with transformative ideas. So if you're a freelancer with a rich relative, who's a CEO, tell them to hire School of Ideas, learn more @schoolofideas.co.

[End Advertisement]

Aaron J.:

So when you're freelance, rate comes up frequently for all of us freelancers. And it seems like your job is complicated in terms of it's on a set, it's a part of a bigger production. How do you figure out what to charge?

Amanda N.:

So I usually have... Like production will submit their offer and I still do a lot of my own deals. I have an agent I am represented but I still like to be in the mix. I think it's always important to counter or to ask if there's flexibility and, you know, graciously. I don't think that... I think that every project has a budget. It's not Carte Blanche and you have to go into it understanding that, but also knowing your worth and knowing what you're able to work for without feeling like you're getting taken advantage of. Because I think that that really has an effect on how creative you are. Like if you're not getting the base pay for like what you think you're putting in, then you're just... I don't think you'll be happy and I think it shows.

Amanda N.:

So I usually hear production out and counter with what I think. I kind of go a little bit higher because you know that they're going to come back with an offer that's a little bit lower. I think it's important to be reasonable. I hear a lot in the commercial industry that, "Oh, we have this thing, this like small job. We wish you could do it, but I don't think we have the budget." And it's like, "Well, what is your budget?" Give me an opportunity to look at it before discounting me because you think that I'm going to cost too much.

Aaron J.:

Are you also negotiating for the styling and costuming budget on top of that?

Amanda N.:

So a lot of the times production will say, "This is what we have." Then me and my Supervisor, which is kind of like the Project Manager and my team will go through and create a budget for what we know it's going to cost and submit that. Because a lot of times I don't really think that people really take into account and they just give like an overall number for what they think it's going to a cost. But it's really important to go through the script and come up with your own budget so that there are no surprises in the end. And you can say what, this is what it's going to cost or not. This number won't work or it might work, or it will work for some episodes, but in this episode, we'll need more money. But it's important, like again, I just think it's important to be reasonable and look at it from all sides and not always just assume that production has more money and they're not willing to give it to.

Andrew D.:

And then what for you is like the perfect project?

Amanda N.:

I think the perfect project for me is, when I'm just able to create and not micromanaged. I think that's why it's hard for me to do commercials now or anything that's a big network because I just think that the creative process gets kind of squashed. You're really talking about like the color and khaki or shirt, like button up shirts and like really, really, really small details that I don't really feel that patient in that arena I've noticed, because then I just become a shopper.

Amanda N.:

I need to be a part of like building characters and giving backstory and understanding who they are and finding those details that separate them from the mass. I like to make things, I like to make clothes, but I don't recommend going to do a production line or a clothing line. People have been asking about because with Shrill, we make most of our stuff and everybody wants to know when we're going to do one or, and I don't know. I think I need to relax, do two shows at once. So my husband's in New Orleans and-

Andrew D.:

Make sure the bars running okay.

Amanda N.:

Make sure the bars are okay and maybe cool it for a minute.

Aaron J.:

Just cool it.

Amanda N.:

Cool it.

Aaron J.:

Just cool it.

Amanda N.:

Yeah. Really cool it.

Andrew D.:

Well, Amanda, thank you so much for coming on.

Amanda N.:

Thank you for having me.

[Transition]

Andrew D.:

So now we've arrived at the part of the show where we hear from you, the listeners and we're going to do a little Q and A. So Aaron, this one came in through Instagram. Where do you start when you don't feel as confident with your work as you would like to?

Aaron J.:

Well, I think the conventional wisdom is going to say, just start, right? And you're going to find your way through it. And I think that we, as creative people or we're working with creative people, it's amazing what kind of energy and momentum can come from just starting. Even if you don't have the confidence that you know exactly where it's going. In freelance, normally the clock's running. So you want to start and even if you're not heading in the right direction, it's probably a good idea to start. So you can check in and get more direction, more feedback, more kind of ability to hit the target. But what do you think of when you think about that type of thing Andrew?

Andrew D.:

You know if it's kind of more of a general malaise, maybe you got into being a designer because you went to art school. You fell in love with great design and you find yourself putting together bad decks for a client. That's when it's time to go back to what you love and like do a personal project and give yourself an assignment that is going to sort of remind you why you became a designer in the first place. And make something that you are super excited to share with the world because you can't really send bad decks out to get more work. But if you make an awesome personal project, you're probably going to get work out of that, especially if you share it on social.

Aaron J.:

Yeah. Love that

Outro:

The Mt. Freelance podcast is handcrafted by the producers, mixers and sound designers of Digital One, Portland, Oregon, executive producer, Eric Stolberg post producer, Kelsey Woods, assistant engineer, Tristin Schmunk, who also created the theme song and instrumental music. To learn more about Aaron, Andrew and Mt. Freelance visit mtfreelance.com. Thanks for listening. And may your day rate be high and your vacations long. Digital One.